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March 24 2017

man, shows you how removed i am from society. i kinda knew we had a lot of smokers but since next to none of my friends smoke and i don't go out much it's just not on my radar.

i dislike bans generally but with the issue of second hand smoke i do see there's an issue. still, if it were my decision i'd have incentivized restaurants to have non-smoking areas (with some sort of benefits), not forcing them to do something.

'ausländermaut' has passed me by as well (city-dweller; i don't have or need a car) ... so much for a united european spirit ^^
You know it's coming up 47 years since Jim Lovell of Apollo 13 uttered these immortal words.
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wow, you're right - data is from 2014 but austria is #16 in cigarette consumption (france only #61) o.O
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what the fuck is this bullshit



This reminds me of the time I was having trouble drawing fists, like

No shit I mean like on a PERSON

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the left just seems to have hauled anchor and sailed off into the sunset.
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When you compare genders, men are also a minority. Checkmate, feminists!
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Dat Boi?
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What's wrong with Modern Art? [Jordan Peterson]

stumbled across that by accident* and (at least in parts) speaks to my sentiments, @snuggle @paket @sofias

* if you can call filter-bubble inducing youtube algorithms "accidents" ...
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i'm not against enhancing the experience of art with further descriptions but i feel if the description is more complex, has taken more effort to come up with and says more than the artwork then the real art is the description itself, not the thing being described.

i've laid out what i would want art to be more in responses to paket and the need for aristocratic approval for something to be called art doesn't sit right with me either - i guess depending on what these collective authorities use as a basis to judge something as art (which in fact might not be too different from my ideas about it).

i don't mind walls of text - thanks for that story. a "graffiti connoisseur", huh? :D i changed my mind about graffiti when i started my own various artistic endeavours (at around 15), cause first i saw it as just unispired scribbling made for the sake of vandalism alone but slowly started appreciating, yes, the skill, effort, creativity and such.
oh? when did i point you to paul bloom? can't remember but very probably i've linked to where he discusses empathy with sam harris (?) ^^

pretty sure i've seen this video but i'll happily rewatch it with the discussion above in mind - thanks!
but what does it then mean to be an artist?

because i am an artist. i make music. i hone my skills daily. i think a lot about creating artworks - "decorating time" as i've seen it been described ^^ - and no matter if one likes the endproduct, you can clearly hear my current level of skill and with a bit of insight into composition even the level of effort that has gone into it.

i also draw very simple one-color abstract paintings from time to time and no matter how much i like them (= enough to sometimes frame them and hang them up on a wall in my flat) i always see them as having less artistic value. in this case i guess because you can see how it takes next to no special skill to produce them but there are nice ideas and somewhat of an effort shown.

March 23 2017

>I think you shouldn't deny these artworks artistic value because they don't do for you what they obviously do for others.
that's not my metric, though. i don't think whether something is art or not should be dependent on the observers feelings, because then everything has the potential to become art and the question "what is art?" can simply answered with "want you want it to be" and this discussion is over. that's too boring ^^

i'm probably not gonna give you now the be all end all defintion of what is art (although that would be amazing :D ) but i think (the) two major components are skill and effort shown in a an artwork (i would put creativity as a subset of skill). i see the two as being added to each other and skill having more impact (something like "2*skill + effort" maybe?), so that if you only put in much effort but without discernable skills there's a lower artistic value than something done with almost no effort but with great skill. i'm thinking of picasso's "the dog". a stroke of genius. literally ^^

whatever it's measured by (and "skill" often shows up in definitions of art), i'm against leaving it up to the individual to decide what and what isn't art, cause it muddies the waters too much.
i'm very much in favor of putting more focus on art and creativity in schools and the points you listed speak to that - just including it in STEM makes no sense. STEM is also often used as description for personality types or jobs (logic based, mathematical, sciency, technical, object-oriented (as in opposition to people-oriented)). include art and the resulting "STEAM" has lost its explanatory power. why do that, when you could just boost art education on its own?

> "every piece that needs a darn essay to be understood"
pretty much this, yeah. i've been to modern art museums and found that most pieces are horribly mute by themselves ("crippled" is what i thought back then) and the descriptions might as well be post-hoc stories, leaving me quite frankly with a vibe of insincereness and lack of intention (especially when the text would start with "it was the artist's intention..." ironically). and since many works also look as if they need no discernable skills or great ideas to be manufactured they always exude this sense of laziness. if a description seems honest and thoughtful for once it's often more complex than the artwork itself, which left me thinking "why didn't this person become a writer in the first place? the exhibit itself says much less than this mandatory interpretation". also, yeah, exactly this point: the longer the description by the artist the less you can't interpret yourself, although that's the mental process where i think the emotional attachment to art comes in; when you run it over in your head actively coming up with meaning not being told what it should - and with modern art imo often fails - to say.
did he say somewhere art is easy? (honestly can't remember and rewatching is a hassle. i only recall him bashing a certain type of art. righteously so, imo.)

i don't think art is necessarily easy (except this lazy modern art approach) but from my own experience it's certainly easier than most things in STEM.

i'm currently learning somewhat advanced musical stuff, like polyrhythms on drums mainly and some jazz chords on guitar to spice up my regular playing ... and some of it is driving me crazy but it's still nothing compared to, for example, classes of physical chemistry or theoretical math i took. not a general argument of course, but please consider people like me before you throw your graphic tablet.
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Norm Macdonald
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hm. this wiki-article paints a different picture (art of design) than the things i've looked up (1, 2 -> art and design or just art). science based design would basically be architecture / structural thinking / networks or something to that extent, which i'd happily include (if it isn't already within the separate fields) but adding the unbelievably broad topic of "art" to STEM would render the term pretty much meaningless.

i share his resentments towards modern art and i share his opinion that art shouldn't be lumped in with STEM-fields.
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